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so kendrick offically sold out right? since hes with dr. dre and jimmy right? thats how these things usually go, right?
Are you an idiot?? ^^^
It does seem pretty hater-ish to reach that far in an unsubstantiated attempt to discredit a good artist. We can consider Kendrick to have "sold out" when his music changes and he starts catering to the mainstream. Until then, I don't give a shit who distributes it if it's the same quality.
smh the realest was clearly being sarcastic.
I was just about to say the same thing as X
@the realest, depends on if you use record deals or musical style to define "selling out." If selling out means inking a major deal, then yes, K.Dot has sold out. However, if it is determined by the music, we will have to wait until his next album to decide.
With that said, Interscope did play a role in the subpar Attention Deficit.
I'm really hoping this doesn't fuck up his style, see what happened to Yelawolf, guy was making raw then got signed with Shady and started putting out fucking cheesy ass love songs. But if he can do what he does but with a higher quality and like better beats, then that will be fucking great.
lol thank you @ rmpwolf
im just sayin, thats usually the case for the ppl on 2dopeboyz and undergrounders. usually, when you ink a deal with the evil corporate majors you sold out. i havnt seen one artist ink a major and not get branded a sell out.
and you have to understand, his music isnt being distributed to the few hundred or thousand core fans that listen to him like you all, its being distributed by the millions to the entire world. and his music will need to adjust accordingly.
in my opinion, his music is mad boring and sometimes way left-field. i was hoping for this move bcuz dr dre is the musical composer that can take his music to the nxt level, in my opinion.
and his music quality is gonna change mos def. but i think for the better.
Wow ya'll are stupid it's obvious the realest was being sarcastic.
I agree with JoPees on that Yelawolf comment though.
^see comment #2; apparently he wasn't being all that sarcastic
valence said this on March 30th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
^ bcuz he had no control. when its a deal like that where your tryna "boss up" and land your own deal with the majors, your gonna have 0 control. simply bcuz you have no track record. how are they gonna invest millions and trust that your "art" is gonna turn a profit? they dont.
thats why rolling with ross who has his own deal and a good enough track record to get SOME creative control, and allow wale to have a lil more freedom rather than trying to go solo dolo. which is why wiz khalifa's rolling paper was pretty much another Attention deficit just under warner. same shit, different story.
@ The REalest: You don't sell out until your music changes. For example, no one considered Kanye a sell out until after Graduation. ANd Nas isn't a sellout, neither is Common. All have major deals. But Drake, going from his style on Comeback Season to TML, is one. It's not about getting the deal, that's the main goal. It's about keeping it real after you get the deal.
Majors wanna sell whatever they feel like people wanna buy, Its not rocket science. Kendrick or whoever can make anything they wanna make and the label really doesnt give a fuck as long as they feel like people wanna buy it which usually comes down to one element on a album. The SINGLE
^ explain to me how kanye became a sell out after graduation. bcuz his cover was pink? eventho he gotta a whole vh1 story to tell about that color and his reason behind it.
or bcuz he made 808s after his mom died and his fiance left him and didnt feel like making some fucking "real hiphop" to please yall?
or was it when he took hiphop to the nxt level of musical compositions with MBDTF?
please. show me how and when he sold out.
i agree with marty mcfly, at the end of the day - it does come down to the artist. If you ever feel that your favorite rapper switched up when they got signed, its becuz they wanted to sell records = at the end of the day its up to them. lupe is a great example, he didn't have to release that lasers album, absolutely no one was holding a gun to his head. major label are suppose to have that radio mentality, they are a business, you signed the contract = what do u expect. so kendrick can keep it one hundred with his music always even if hes signed to a major. its always that negative hipster mentality that holds you guys back
Do you listen to lyrics? Yea, MBDTF was a masterpiece sonically but he dumbed down his subject matter like crazy. I completely forgot about 808s, but who cares. Shit's garbage. He went from Jesus Walks to Hell of a Life. All Falls Down and Heard Em Say to Monster. Went from working with Talib regularly to working with Officer Ricky. All of The Lights is a perfect example. Great song because of the production, not because of Ye's unnecessary verses. And instead of finding actual talent, he signs Smedium Sean because he knows that type of shit SELLS.
If you ain't feel the lyrical complexity of MBDTF, you're an idiot that doesn't understand subtlety. MBDTF was a personal project from Kanye that was comrpised of tracks that beautifully contrasted with each other - it was, in short, a masterfully refined collage of diary entries.
Sit Down, I'd tell you to tell your dick gobblin' ass to "sit down", but I know you prolly still butthurt from listening to MBDTF.
^cmon son. MBDTF was NOT that complex. He's got a good point there.
Yea, alright bro. Sounds like your Gobblin Ye's dick.He dumbed it down. I understood it all. I didn't have to think to understand any of it. It wasn't complex. It was simple. But maybe it's complex compared to the shit you listen to.
You a part of the niggas that ain't get it, Chill Moody. You the type of nigga to think "Murder to Excellence" was the best track on Watch the Throne
One of my least favorite tracks on an already underwhelming album, but go ahead, tell me more about myself, Mr. Magical Internet Mind Reader. What's my favorite color? What's my dog's name? Do I eat fish?
Jesus Christ, does it hurt you that badly when somebody makes a minor little criticism toward Kanye West? Get over the man-crush, dude.
You a part of the niggas that ain’t get it, Chill Moody. You the type of nigga to think “Murder to Excellence” was the best track on Watch the Throne
Fuckyoupayme said this on March 30th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
^ lmao yo i pictured like 5 ppl i know off top after reading that one. that shit was on-point like a muthafucka.
and in a short and sweet answer, MBDTF was better than A LOT of albums in w.e the fuck how long. it just is. im sorry. it is.
the ppl who say MBDTF was wack are the same ppl who brand rappers as sellouts once they go major. they are the same ones who only acknowledge illmatic and it was written as the only great nas albums and classify the nigga album and distant relatives as more "nas subpar albums". those are the same ones who are quick to dick suck someone new and unclaimed or underrated, but once they receive mass and public attention, the bitter hater inside comes out and they brand them as "sell outs."
further more, they are the same ones who judge the entire body of work by singles like monster and all of the lights designed to grab the attention and ears of the majority, and just flat out ignore the album cuts. which true hiphop heads were suppose to vaule most ANYWAY. not the singles. but maybe im the one seeing things backwards.
I absolutely agree with the idea that MBDTF was overall one of the best albums to come out of any genre for several years. But lyrically, it's hard to ignore that Kanye took a step down on that one, and personally, I feel like he continued the downward motion for the majority of WTT. I don't consider it to be "selling out" or even necessarily depreciation; plenty of artists have their ups and downs, and fortunately, Kanye's soundscapes have arguably gotten even better in recent years. But it strikes me as kinda stanly to pretend MBDTF was some complex masterpiece of carefully woven subjects; if anything it seems like the "dream" theme was just an excuse to cover up the random clashes and Lil Wayne-esque mid-song subject switches.
Whats wrong with thinking Murder To Excellence is the best song on WTT? Does that mean your not cool or something if you do? Anyway @ObamaFriedChicken, They did hold a gun to Lupe's head because if he didnt deliver Lasers they would have held him in contractual limbo for years. My thing with the fans and artists is they gotta get a reality check for a minute because when they walk in a major label they should already know its strictly about selling millions of records period. If that artists has a problem crossing over to a mainstream audience then its no need to even talk to a major because you already know they have platinum artists in the building already.
Im not saying a artist should change their music or not change their music, im just saying its a give and take thing. If a artists wants to use some of the labels resources and money its only right that they should try to work with the label so everyone ends up happy because fighting over creative control only hurts the artist not the label cause they already on with or without the artist. As for Kanye last album, you also gotta remember that he was already KANYE by then so dropping a album like MBDTF is ok for Kanye on his 5th album but if that would have been his debut album, I dont know if that would have worked as well for him because the sound of that album is a little ahead of its time and if that was his first album I dont think people would know what to do with it.
I gotta agree with @the realest on a number of points. I've said it before, and i'll say it again: Niggas on this site will most likely turn on Kendrick whether he changes his musical style or not. People on this site, youtube, and other blog sites have done the same thing to Big Sean, Wale, B.o.B, Wiz Khalifa, and J. Cole. "Fans"of a rapper just love to hate.
Secondly, realest was right when he talked about singles. Whenver one that sounds remotely mainstream comes out niggas start complaining and then say the whole fucking album is trash. Same thing with J.Cole's Sideline Story. The nigga came out with Work Out(which wasn't even bad), niggas completely wrote the album off like it was trash.
@ chill moody
i know what you sayin. and i want you agree with you bcuz i see why you would say that, but difference is like choosing between a $800 ipad or a $750 ipad. either one is still too damn expensive.
thats how MBDTF was with previous albums. MBDTF was more braggadocio, but it gotta be on context of the person. remember, these are ppl to. not just tools for our enjoyment. and that nigga was coming off a low-point that most of us wont experience which is loosing your mom at a young age and your fiance.
then expected to make not just a hiphop album or a good one but a GREAT one. while pleasing the corporates who are expecting a profitable album, the ppl who BUY the album are expecting something they can buy, not some kendrick or cole, and the hiphop fans who are expecting a GREAT album. and then there still has to be anough room left to do wtf HE wants to do. and 808s is more of what kanye WANTS to do while college dropout is more of what YALL want him to do.
so considering the demand that is put on this one man, he delivered a masterpeice. bcuz you can NEVER please everyone all the time. so you just gotta do wtf you want to do and see if ppl gonna get it and accept it. if not they dont. and you keep it pushing.
and btw, the artistry and complexity of devil in a new dress and what makes that song so great, still is over many's heads.
When it comes to rappin & overall appeal as a hip hop artist, Big Sean, Wale, B.o.B., Wiz Khalifa, & J.Cole are just middle of the road as far as I'm concerned. Not to say they don't have a decent song on or two, but considering Kendrick Lamar's mixtapes/EP/LP etc, he's on another level. And if you just call me a stan or some other clever name void of a point, you must 1) listen to rap for beats 2) never listened to all Kendrick's album beginning to end to appreciate it.
well they didn't hold a literal gun in his head, thats what im rying to say: he signed the contract - when u sign a contract, of course u got to stick to it or you can be in a lawsuit,debt,etc. I'm saying he didnt have to deliver that album and get out of the situation with a good lawyer team but he chose to stick with the controlled terms and deliver a disappointment. Regardless, I dont like kanye's music personally because i cant connect BUT his albums are classics, as far as im concerned - EACH ALBUM KANYE DROPS IS GROUNDBREAKING, so many artists and new rappers are inspired by his energy and creativity. Yes, his lyrics can be salty at times but just because i dont like his music doesn't mean ill say that his albums suck and is too mainstream. His music is incredible, his lyrics often have substance, his imagery is beyond hip hop. we have really ignorant people on these blogs, learn to separate fact from opinion sometimes. you can appreciate life better that way rather then this hipster mentality of somebody "selling out" or "being mainstream" or not "having good lyrics"
co-sign @marty mcfly
thats how MBDTF was with previous albums. MBDTF was more braggadocio, but it gotta be on context of the person.
^ but you gotta take into context, the person.*
Regardless, I dont like kanye’s music personally because i cant connect BUT his albums are classics, as far as im concerned – EACH ALBUM KANYE DROPS IS GROUNDBREAKING, so many artists and new rappers are inspired by his energy and creativity. Yes, his lyrics can be salty at times but just because i dont like his music doesn’t mean ill say that his albums suck and is too mainstream. His music is incredible, his lyrics often have substance, his imagery is beyond hip hop. we have really ignorant people on these blogs, learn to separate fact from opinion sometimes. you can appreciate life better that way rather then this hipster mentality of somebody “selling out” or “being mainstream” or not “having good lyrics”
Obama Fried Chicken said this on March 30th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
^ THERE WE GO!
Using Kanye as a debate figure in an argument about selling out isnt a logically example imo because your talking about somebody with hit records in double digits and he came in the game with multiple hit records so its no need to even have that debate about whether or not he sold out. As far as Lupe and Cole go it just comes down to a matter of opinion because I dont look at Lasers as a disappointment but many do. I dont like Sideline Story but many people do but if the fans write off a artists whole album because of the single or because they label them a sell out I dont really blame the fans because they make write the song.
MBDTF was a personal project from Kanye that was comrpised of tracks that beautifully contrasted with each other – it was, in short, a masterfully refined collage of diary entries.
^ i missed this, but yeah, this. if you dont see the truth in this, then you didnt get the album. period. but hiphop fans arnt really MUSIC fans. their really lyric fans. and thats a huge difference.
LOGICAL example I mean in terms of Kanye.
Damn I gotta start proof reading LOL but I meant, I dont blame fans for writing off Cole's whole album because of the singles because the fans DIDNT make OR write the songS. They just choose to support or not support the outcome of those songs.
Sad I come to a kendrick link and all i hear about is kanye... everysingle one of you needs to realize your opinions dont mean shit. just appreciate the music for what it is and if you dont like it dont buy it. On another note, Kendrick with some money behind him and the TDE crew now I cant wait to hear what they come out with.
Lastly about Kendrick Lamar im just gonna give him a pass based on the HiiiPower song. So if he comes out with a commercial sounding record or whatever id give him a pass so he can get his money. Just like me and many other people did for Cole when he dropped Work Out but I believe its when the 2nd single came around and he did the same hat trick thats when it was like COMEONSON cause you know thats not what your core fans wanted. I say let Kendrick get his money song off if thats what he wants to do and then go back to holding him to some super lyrical standard because thats only fair. Its like when people try to shit on Lupe for Lasers even after he has put out multiple great songs and even the Lasers singles had dope lyrics, I mean for God sake the 2nd single was Words I Never Said and he performed it on both MTV and BET and people still called him a sell out. I think sometimes artists should be able to earn a pass from hip hop heads based on that artists past records and potential messages on albums records so im gonna save the sell out talk on Kendricks behalf just based on HiiiPower. DONE
Y'all know that kendrick is signed to TDE right .! And that TDE signed a deal with aftermath just to release the albums .! Not only k.dot. All of black hippy.! TDE is full of dudes that won't " sell out" .. K.dots album will do the numbers anyway based on the buzz he has built for himself .. And also sideline story is a brilliant album. From start to finish it plays out nicely.! That was a steping stone to his second album that I know will be an amazing album .! Friday night lights level.! Kendricks album is gonna be a brilliant album also as most of the tracks are produced in -house with digi-phonics .! They have so much talent ., everybody needs to stop debating and just enjoy the music that comes out.!!
People like to talk about their opinions on things they're interested in and a hip hop blog seems like a good place to talk about this opinions with other knowledgeable (for the most part) fans. I hate comments like yours trying to make yourself feel like you're better than everyone else because you don't value your own opinions which is pretty sad.
@ marty mcfly, you done impressing yourself with what you think you know? J.Cole is trendy and he tries too hard. Dude is forced and wanted to blow up so bad. Fuck an MTV & BET audience too. Being desperate isn't a good look, and that's why J.Cole has no appeal. How did he sell out when he was unknown by the masses until Work Out? Talkin about givin Kendrick a pass, comparing Work Out to Hiii Power -- the fuck are you talking about? It's gotta be tough walking in those clown shoes.
I don't think he compared Work Out to HiiiPower. He said J.cole should get a pass for Work Out because of all the good music he made before it just like Kendrick is entitled to make a pop song if he wants because HiiiPower was a "real hip hop" single.
can't wait to see where this takes Kendrick hopefully to somewhere greater than where he is now West Coast is coming strong!
as well as the rest of TDE!
If hes wearing clown shoes, you must be wearing semen colored Stillettoes. Jcole is alright, saying he trendy and tries to hard is just like saying hes talk of the town and is trying his best to be a better rapper/producer. so you run short right there. Lets be real, he has appeal, it might no attract u nor me but he has appeal if he has a huge following and puts decent music out.
I love Kendrick and his whole TDE movement... but this whole situation is starting to blow out of proportion. It's the same shit ever fucking year pretty much... last year, every blogger/hipster was all on J.Cole's dick until he dropped his mainstream album. Those fans are now bandwagoning on Kendrick... with the same amount of intensity as if he were the savior of Hip-Hop. People, he said it on the Buried Alive (Interlude) on Drake's album... he is flawed. He has dreams of being rich, of stunting, of balling, and when that starts to show in his music once his name gets truly out there... you all will hop/latch onto the next man's dick.
@D99, the whole hip hop community knew who J Cole was years before his first single cause first of all he had the Who Dat video and Blow Up and three mixtapes. He was on a platinum album with Jayz, he was on tour with Drake and Rihanna and he was on every hip hop station TV/Radio, magazine and blog. Thats at least 10 million people who knew who J Cole was so he could have dropped the most underground shit of all time and it would have made noise. Instead he did about 4 features with R&B artists then he dropped Work Out which was cool but not that dope, then he dropped In The Morning then he dropped Cant Get Enough then some other video about a stripper then finally he pulled Lost Ones out the hat and then recently went back to Nobodies Perfect. So how many bullshit tracks did he dedicate to women? Exactly more then Drake did and they were all the softest most popish radio shit ever. Thats why people say he sold out because he delivered something his fans thought he wouldnt and then did it multiple times. Im not mad at him but homie that was the softest most girly roll out for a hardcore hip hop artist ever.
Dam stidown doesnt know wtf hes talkin about nas & common never soldout? Cmon man your fuckin trippin and yes all the nerds on here will turn on kendrick if he gets on the radio
@Marty McFly J.Cole doesn't release a songs about women ALL THE TIME like Drake does. Work Out and Can't Get Enough were radio friendly single, In The Morning was for the FNL tape with the remix being for the album, that song about the stripper is called Daddy's Little Girl and it isn't some stripper's anthem, its an eye-opening, story telling song. Nobody's Perfect, i could honestly care less about that song. J. Cole is an artist. He is an amazing lyricist, a great storyteller, and an amazing producer. He sure isn't the greatest up-and-coming rappers, but he is ONE of the greats up-and-coming rappeers.
@D99 J. Cole had a single called Who Dat which came out like 5-6 years ago, received a large amount of radio play, video was shown on BET and MTV on a regular, had verse on Jay-Z's A Star is Born off the BLueprint 3 (first time i ever heard of J. Cole), has been co-signed baby many of hip-hop's greats, and your gonna say he wasn't known till Work Out? Idk what rock you've been living under but you really get away from it.
@Sir Escobar, lets take a song like Lost Ones, its a great narrative and even the stripper song has some depth to it but overall its just for the girls which isnt a crime but its just reaching too much imo. I mean 1 or two singles for them then cool but after 4 now thats just reaching just for the purpose of selling units to girls cause you know they'll buy and you know Drake made that lane more profitable at the time. Yeah I didnt really say nothing negative about Work Out because I understand he gotta get his paper but after that I was thinking just like his core fanbase. That the next song, he gone kill niggas with some hardcore shit then I hear In The Morning and im like wtf but then still im like OK, next song he finna kill niggas on some super MC shit. Then we get Cant Get Enough !!! At that point im like Comeonson this dude is trying to hard to sell records now and its not even about hip hop no more its about getting placement on pop and R&B stations. At least Drake came out with Over before Miss Me and that other song with the reggae vibe on it. At least Drake was like let me just do something for the rap fans first with Over. Cole went right for the easy crossover and whats even more crazy is he didnt even have to do that. So yeah I can look passed a bullshit first single but after that im like the rest of the hardcore fans, im like where's the raw shit at? I hope Kendrick comes right out the gate with some hardcore hip hop shit really.
And yes I know he tried with Who Dat but damn dont just totally abandon ship after that. Im not saying that having a single like Lean Back from Fat Joe or Breathe from Fabolous are the easiest songs to make but at least give it a good shot though. Later
@Marty McFly i can see where you are coming from. Yes, Lost Ones and Daddy's Little Girl are probably for the ladies, yet at the same time it can be a teaching song for them. So for those songs i have no problem about them. Work Out i can't lie is my second fav J. Cole song. ITs a summer anthem, its catchy,nice hooks, simple yet dope lyrics, although it is mainstream, i just like it. Can't Get Enough, i hated that song, the beat was just crap imo. In The Morning was never a personal fav for me, but i never really hated it, but since it was originally on a mixtape so i didn't really care for it being in the album. At the end of day, Sideline Story was still dope. It was one of the best albums released in 2011. But, to each his own.As for Kendrick, as long as he gets the recognition he deserves i'm content.
J cole's sideline story suuuuucked rhino balls
The Realest said "but hiphop fans arnt really MUSIC fans. their really lyric fans. and thats a huge difference."
Is probably the smartest thing I've seen said on this site. Props.
Honestly, Kendrick isn't a good artist. He may be good at rhyming and acting pissed off. But at the end of the day people don't care about that shit, if it doesn't sound good. Joe Budden was probably the best lyricist with the Mood Muzik series and you see how that style eventually tanked? You can only take it so far. It's not music, it's just lyrics. Don't get me wrong, lyrics are important, but it's not the only piece.
I think rappers put so much emphasis on the lyrics because that's all they control. They have little control or any idea of how to make a complete song. Most rap songs you can turn off before the last hook. With other types of music (and great rap songs) you got to listen to every second of the song. Great care has gone into everything from sound selection, mixing, arrangements, recording, and mastering. This is what we need in hip hop and Kanye and to some extent Drake are the only ones doing this.
I hope Kendick can become the next Kanye but I can't see it right now. All the great artist, we could see early on they had it. I know Kendrick has the right mind frame, but not sure if he understands those other elements I described above. Hip Hop will forever belong to the Producer/Rapper. These are the guys that can innovate themselves, they don't need to rely on someone else (i.e. another producer). Kanye can innovate from within, Jay-Z has to go find producers to craft a new sound.
As for J. Cole for the most part he isn't good, but has the production part going for him, which is very promising and I think a huge reason Hov signed him.
Sideline Story sucked, I only liked one song "God's Gift". I think if he came out with that song first then he would have done much better. Doing "girl" or "radio" records is fine, if they are actually good, but the one's J Cole dropped were sub-par.
Labels need to stop this "hey this sounds like it appeals to radio" let's drop this as the single mentality and instead adopt the "this is clearly the best song on the album" let's bet the farm on this.
I'm already running out of things to rap about, so I'm turning to David Guetta for my first crossover techno single: Rainbow Colors.
I'm trying to reach out to my gay fans because they love me for me and not just my lyrics.
You´re wrong, Kendrick knows his music. Listen to Section.80 & O.D. They stick to clear themes, sonically every song sounds like it BELONGS to the album. He knows what he wants his albums to sound like. Listen to Cartoons & Cereal & His Pain, two joints that could´ve easily been on Section.80, again, they fit into the sonical sound that he was going for and the themes too (Reaganomics, pain, faith, hypocrisy, Compton). If you compare Kanye´s and Kendrick´s ability to create ALBUMS, Kendrick is better, in my opinion. I never really listened to 808´s, but I´ve heard the other albums and I think every album except for MDBTF lacked clear direction, sonical cohesiveness and an overall structure. Listening to OD or Section.80 you go from point A to point B, there´s a thread through the whole album which you can follow. With Late Registration, Graduation or College Dropout, I never got that feeling. And that´s the problem most rappers have. They don´t know how to create albums. They put their best songs in one album and that´s that. They should peep Ready To Die, Illmatic, Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, OB4CL so that they can learn how to sequence (LMAO @ J. Cole being proud of the sequencing on his album, the sequencing wasn´t even good) and conceptualize their albums.
^ say what now? kanye doesnt know how to put together albums? *cleans ears* come again? lacked clear direction? kanye's catalog as a collective is CLEARLY in direction. only thing out of place is 808s. and that was just bcuz he physicaly and emotionaly couldnt make a "hiphop" album. so he made a real album. and then even after that in albums still followed in direction with MBDTF. wit cover basicaly depicting himsekf and how he feels after his heartbreak. fucked up on the couch wit a bottle and a bad bitch. in both senses of the word. and that is as simple as i can put it on its broadest scale.
kanye is the LAST person you mention talking about lack of direction. i think we need to slow down on this kendrick lamar fever. i understand hes yall newest favorite rapper and all but the nigga is just a lil bit above average. thats it.
Saying that hip hop fans aint MUSIC fans makes no sense to me because that statement basically shits on all the legendary producers in hip hop. Especially since we know Kanye was famous 4 years before his first album came out and that had alot to do with his beats. Further more in hip hop we sample like crazy and only someone who loves music would do that enough to make a career off it. If hip hop fans are not music fans and they just like lyrics then every Nas album should be multi platinum and people like Pete Rock and Premo should not be able to tour the globe just based on the how good their instrumentals are. Now YoRapper said producer/rappers basically are better then rappers who dont make beats but problem is most of the best rappers dont make beats so that statement is reaching imo.
Kanye's albums didn't have a clear direction?? Jut because you have a crush on Kendrick doesn't deny the FACTS: Kanye album's have been cohesive - nothing ever really felt out of place (mind you, I dont like Kanye) im just stating the facts, the sounds. Yes J.cole album was mediocre at sequencing but dont be ignorant and act like there wasn't have type of order. People gravitate towards Kanye more because he is real with his albums, if you look at any normal human being; they are not always consistenet in there personality. So put that into album terms and we all know Kanye, hes very chaotic at time. If anything, it surprises me that he doesn't get uncohesive within his albums. He always has the soul, early hip hop, chicago style theme. Always. Now back to this Kendrick dude you guys always bring up since thats your foundation. Section 80 is just as good as Sideline Story and all music critics and review notice it too. (dont believe me, look at each ratings/reviews/etc) So don't jump the gun and say Section 80 changed hip hop, because it didn't do as much as College Dropout (I hate to use this as an example but you guys always diss the facts) You can like either or, opinions are always there but to say one beats the other - im gunna put my money on Kanye because he simply is WAAAAY better at putting together albums generally.
i hear you, but i still stand by my point. most, not all, but mos def most hiphop fans arnt music fans, their lyric fans. and that within itself is not diss, its just an observant distintion.
the reason why every nas album isnt multi-platinum is bcuz you dont have to be a pure "music" fan to be able to tell if the beat sounds good or not. bcuz if it is or isnt, you gonna get a reaction or a feeling within the first few secs telling you so, bcuz thats the beauty and power of music. you dont need to know why, you just know.
and nas, not having much of a talent for picking beats(bcuz hes such a great lyricist. always a balance) his sales showed why. which is another example of how powerful the instrumentation is. it doesnt matter if your nasir jones, if your MUSIC doesnt sound right, ppl arnt gonna listen to what you got to say let alone buy it.
and by fans of music im not saying you listen to every single music genre, but you appreciate it and understanding of it each, bcuz in general its all the same.
except hiphop. what seperates hiphop MOSTLY is the fact that the most emphazied instrumental is the mouth, and is more about what your saying rather than how said it. example being beyonce could sing flaws and all or the national anthem and ppl are gonna question or judge what shes singing, theyre gonna judge HOW she sings it. but if a rapper started rapping a national anthem rather than some real shit, we gonna question why the fuck he rapping a national anthem.
hiphop as a culture, which includes the fans, emphazies bars, punch line, entendres, etc. when ppl hear ready to die or life after death, theyre not listening or thinking about the beat puff made. the backdrop he provided. the canvas and beautiful colors he gave biggie to paint. they just hear biggie. shit, if you asked them they'd say biggie wrote all the lyrics, came up with all the concepts, made all the sounds, thought of the sounds, and just did everything.
no offense, but hiphop fans, or atleast in this time, they dont open the booklet and read the finprints. read up to see who were the producers, co-producers, the ppl who played the instruments, the writers, the co-writers. the creative design artists, the art directors.
im not sayin that music fans do all that all the time, but they understand it and appreciate it. and its in their heads while theyre listening to the records. they see the snares, the kicks, the keyboard, the guitar strings, the horns. all the sounds.
hiphop fans dont see that. how do i know? bcuz of what they value. the arguements that are made. ppl saying things like "the production on MBDTF was good i'll give you that, but the lyrics werent all that." like the music dont mean shit. thats the whole mentality tho. the music is 2nd to the lyrics. when ppl hear girls girls girls by jay they not listening to the violin in the hook, the rises and drops within the beat. they just listening to jay and noding they head bcuz good music will send that message to your mind that its that shit subconciously without ou really giving it much though. each beat and instrumentation(the good ones) is telling a story and emotion within itself. but it gets overshadowed and overlooked by the lyrics.
@the realest, you still gotta look at the beats rappers choose to rap on because just based on how alot of rappers pick beats, they must consider the sound very important and that comes from quality expectations of the fans. I keep mentioning producers and artists who make the beats because they service the people who are fans of the music. Hip Hop has too many dynamics as far as beats to not have people that are fans of just the beats by themselves. Take Premo, Rza, Just Blaze, Timbaland, Black Milk, Nottz, Alchemist, Dr Dre, Kanye, No I.D, Pharrell etc etc... All these producers contribute something different to the same genre of music so that shows what a high level of musicality hip hop must have from the people making the beats to the fans. Hip Hop Heads could name off who made each beat just by sound recognition alone, maybe not casual hip hop fans but longtime fans of hip hop yeah. Hip hop is an art form where a rapper could make a name for himself just by reusing the same beats that have been rapped on for years and thats partly because people still like those beats and are fans of those beats. Anytime you have millions of people that are fans of a simple 8 second loop from a old record, that lets you know that they acknowledge the beat. Now if those same people act like lyrics are more important then so be it but they definitely are fans of the music involved. Since you like Puff so much we can use All About The Benjamins for example cause a new rapper could use that same beat right now and put it on his album and people will act like its new even knowing its not. On top of that Puff remade a bunch of old songs that people have known for years before Puff did it and they still accepted it and thats cause they were already fans of those beats. Then there are rappers that dont even have good lyrics and never did and they sell records strictly based on beats they pick because their raps are garbage to begin with and some of their fans will straight up say they just like the beats. Now take the rappers out the equation completely and hip hop producers could hold down the culture just with instrumentals alone and that must be because of a great demand for dynamic music in hip hop. I dont think no other genre of music by sides Jazz and house music could do the same thing.
Hip Hop fans are definitely fans of the MUSIC because to please them you gotta have beats thats beyond just being DOPE. Thats why the sound of hip hop has changed constantly over the years and thats why the veteran rappers need a million dollar budget just to get beats.
Is this the same Kendrick Lemar that co-signed Lil B and listens to his music? I'm done.
Dude, r u serious? J.cole/wiz/kendrick/mac miller/yelawolf,etc are cookie cutter rappers that are super generic and copy the rest. Lil B is the most progressive rapper in rap history, he is innovating and creating new sounds we never heard before and breaking the box of "What a rapper should be". Hate on his music all you want but the he is one step beyond
its not really a debate tho. it just is. its reality. hiphop doesnt stress musical compositions. thats just the facts. it doesnt. it stresses bars.
the south thing is just an exception. their attention is from the catchy hooks and 808s. not bcuz the instrumentation sounded masterful, but simply bcuz that shit banged.
"Hip hop is an art form where a rapper could make a name for himself just by reusing the same beats that have been rapped on for years and thats partly because people still like those beats and are fans of those beats."
^ and thats bcuz music is 2nd to lyrics in hiphop. they are not equal. doesnt matter if they heard the beat before, just as long as the lyrics are new. my point exactly. try that shit in anyother genre tho and that shit not getting by. why? bcuz they vaule the sound more so if not as equal.
"On top of that Puff remade a bunch of old songs that people have known for years before Puff did it and they still accepted it and thats cause they were already fans of those beats."
^ bcuz the music was good! you keep ignoring the subconcious affect that music plays. you dont have to sit and analyze why the beat sounds good. fans of music can, but you dont have to be one to know that it sounds good, you'll know instantaneously.
see hiphop is still young. it isnt mature yet. you have to be in a mature state to appreciate music and get that emotion and feeling. just the facts. hiphop isnt as mature as r&b yet. you hear it in the instrumentation. listen to a dream or tricky stewart instrumental then listen to a hiphop instrumental, and the difference is clear and obvious.
but, again, hiphop doesnt vaule instrumentation just yet. i remember timbaland sayin hes done making beats for hiphop bcuz the fans dont appreciate it. and it was true. it sounded cold and fucked up but thats how the truth is sometimes. not sugar-coated how you want it, just straight up honesty. and those are the facts. which is why he scooped up justin timberlake and made cry me a river(instrumentation was crazy, hiphop fans dont give it a 2nd thought) and futuresexlovesounds and made music comparable to michael jackson and prince.
i remember kanye saying he was happy to make 808s bcuz it was something that he could play in his house bcuz his house was too nice for hiphop. too elegant for hiphop. which is also true. but you can hear in MBDTF the transition into vauled instrumentation that kanye is trying hard to take hiphop into.
and yeah, puff is my nigga. bcuz i see what he did. i dont get blinded anything and everything outside of the damn music like 99% of hiphop fans. and that percentage is pretty on-point. fans look and make their choice and opinion based on the music quality to, but the overwhelming majority is based on their own personal opinion. which is why objectivity is rare and stands out in discussions, bcuz hiphop as a culture(really america, but thats another discussion) is so segregated and has so much hate flowing around, ppl dont make judgements off music. they make em off what they think about the person. even if theyre wrong.
now back to puff. only ppl that can compare to him is jay-z and kanye. jay-z on the business level, and kanye on the music level. before puff, rap was very rugged, harsh, dirty, simple. puff came along and cleaned it up. made it more live, made you want to get up and dance, made it smooth. made it cool to sample. made it more cinematic. "victory" wasnt even a real beat remember? it was just a moment.
hiphop is limiting, music creativity wise. anything creative visualy and outside the norm, is branded gay or just goes over ppls heads. and anything musically just goes over ppls head and they looking for the nxt song. you cant have minute long intros, guitar solos, outros, live bands and orchestras etc. thats why ppl like kanye, puff, timbaland move to pop or r&b where they have more freedom with their art and dont have to fit inside this tight window of creativity which is called hiphop. and hiphop fans dont have appreciation for music and willing to sit up and listen to a 5 or 6 minute song/story, and to quote puff, "they dont have the attention span for those kinda records." straight up. no chaser. weak-minded folks will see this and get offended and automatically get defensive inside, and other folks will not. those are the objective folks.
Yeah but hip hop fans like HIP HOP music so they dont want to hear a R&B sounding beat when they want to hear hip hop. Not all rappers need a whole Kanye orchestra with back up singers and pyrotechnics. Not everybody wants a Puff Daddy clashing of the genres sounding beat. Give me a Premo beat with his trademark sound and im good to go because thats hip hop. Its not always a need to go any further then that because obviously that has worked for decades so if it aint broken... Plus people like 9th Wonder, Pete Rock , Hi Tek, J Dilla etc have made R&B records before and they have arranged beats that are long and drawn out musical like productions but if im making a hip hop record I need a hip hop beat and that doesnt mean the fans of that sound are small minded or any less musical it just means they want hard drums and dope samples not some experimental Kanye sounding beat with 25 producers on it with the sounds of birds chirping and shooting lasers and opera singers breaking crystal glasses all at one time. Especially when a producer who knows what he's doing can pull out all those same emotions and vibes by chopping up some records, at least that way it remains HIP HOP.
Yeah other genres of music is cool but hip hop has a totally different kind of energy that comes with it and hip hop and form into those other genres but a R&B pop producer cant do what a dope hip hop producer can do cause it would take them forever just to get they drums right let alone make a banger like Just Blaze.
those dope hiphop producers listen to those pop and r&b songs, which is why they can find the right songs to sample and know melodies and harmonies. j dilla, pete rock, 9th wonder, etc, they all listen to those "emotional" records and understand everything behind it.
"Give me a Premo beat with his trademark sound and im good to go because thats hip hop."
^ first, to say "thats hip hop." thats the problem. that the redundant box hiphop fans trys to keep hiphop in. keeping it simple and stagnant. the reason why thats whats wanted bcuz it doesnt require much attention to be frank. the beat is a simple snare and a kick and maybe a sample and thats A PERFECT HARDASS BEAT BCUZ its simple. its not overshadowing the lyrics, bcuz, thats whats most important.
the only requirement for a great hiphop beat is that it makes your head nod. if it does that, its good enough to be rapped on.
and speaking of just blaze, he actually makes orchestrated music. and it makes me chuckle that hes the first person you think of when composing a banger. considering he doesnt make the simple premo beat you said your fine with. he makes the kanye/puffdaddy/orchestrated beats that you imply is unneccessary.
"not some experimental Kanye sounding beat with 25 producers on it with the sounds of birds chirping and shooting lasers and opera singers breaking crystal glasses all at one time."
lol that shit be going!! thats the beauty! making it all blend together, eventho that statement was hella reaching. devil in a new dress was produced by b!nk with just a smokey robinson sample like it came straight from the 90s. but what kanye did was take the classic pure core hiphop sound, and refined it. had TWO guitar solos!! one bringing ross in and one playing the song out and thats just the beat. thats not even diving into the lyrical concepts.
and all that right there, is what comes about from polished music. now if ppl dont have the attention span, open mind, vision, w.e. the fuck to take interest in that then thats a personal problem by the minority. but theres a lot of ppl like myself who love music, not just rap lyrics. and the ppl who feel the same are the producers like blaze and etc. but producers dont get to make albums. the best they can hope for is to make the final listing for someone elses album. and thats why kanye is doing what he is with his albums.
Using the same producers I named to back up your claim that hip hop fans are not music fans is a cop out especially when someone like Just Blaze does the same thing you claim Premo does, he keeps it simple and still makes beats just as good as Kanye and Puffs whole production team. Just Blaze does not go through all the same craziness as Kanye and his technique is definitely some hip hop shit that contains the same blueprints from people like Premo. Implying that those kind of producers keep the art form stagnant is ridiculous when that shit is the foundation of the culture and is always present in hip hop every year since the beginning of rap to today. Not everybody wants to look at Last Train To Paris and MBDTF for how to make beats because before those albums hip hop and its redundant production style was doing just fine and creating multiple classic albums. You can flip the same sample 20 different ways so if a producer has 100 records and knows what he's doing he can pull off the same craziness as Kanye and further if you remove all of the live instrumentation from Kanye's music what will you find underneath? The same production style Pete Rock used 20 years ago when crafting classic songs and albums. Exactly
just blaze doesnt make those beats? so whats exibit c, why you hate the game, show me what you got, song cry. etc. yeah, bcuz those songs sound like premo beats.
further if you remove all of the live instrumentation from Kanye’s music what will you find underneath? The same production style Pete Rock used 20 years ago when crafting classic songs and albums. Exactly"
^ thats bcuz im talking about evolving and improving, not replacing. you dont seem to undertand that simple concept.
"Implying that those kind of producers keep the art form stagnant is ridiculous when that shit is the foundation of the culture and is always present in hip hop every year since the beginning of rap to today."
^ i didnt say the producers are keeping it stagnant. you heard that regeneration song wit nas he dropped lil while ago. THATS what im talking about. anyone with some sense would be trying to take it to the nxt level. but niggaz was hatin on premo for his noble act THEN.
what i was saying ppl like YOU keep hiphop stagnant with statements like “Give me a Premo beat with his trademark sound and im good to go because thats hip hop.” the egotistical arrogance of your ignorace. excluding any room for advacement.
but i know that your just talking out of your ass for arguement sake. i know that by now. you just like to argue. its koo. it was fun. but your not right. you even know it. jay-z kept those premo-sounding beats for how long? three albums? and then his production just kept getting more and more live and more and more bigger. i mean what was encore? what was d.o.a. no need to name any songs, you know the records.
What the fuck are you talking about? I said gimme a Premo beat and im good to go because a Premo beat is dope thats it, its not that I like music that you call stagnant its cause I like Premos beats end of story its that simple. Exhibit C is not no fucking Last Train To Paris type beat mothafucka cause that type of sound is what most of your simple argument is about because using Kanye to make some stupid ass claim about how hip hop beats aint appreciated is retarded. That same style you call stagnant and redundant is the same formula that built Exhibit C, and Kanye's first 3 Albums, YEAH HIS FIRST 3 ALBUMS. So you sound stupid, just because I dont wanna hear Just Blaze make a bunch of Show Me What You Got and Song Cry type shit does not mean Im not a music fan or anybody else like me is not a music fan. The beats Just Blaze did on Saigons album are fine just the way they are. I dont always wanna hear some fucking genre bending R&B pop orchestra fucking Last Train To Paris bullshit mothafucka. I like HIP HOP beats and Hardcore sounds so if I wanna hear other types of music ill listen to other genres of music. If fans like myself want to hear hip hop we want to hear hip hop the way its designed to be heard thats it. Just because Premo doesnt want a full orchestra on every beat he does now does mean the fans of his sound are stagnant non musical people, IT MEANS THEY LIKE HIS SOUND ALREADY THE WAY IT IS. Just cause people like Just Blaze PSA type beats more then his Song Cry type beats doesnt mean those fans dont like music idiot. It MEANS THEY LIKE HIS STYLE LIKE IT IS ALREADY. There is nothing wrong with being a fan of that style. Yeah Jay kept that Premo style for 3 albums so thats a long time fool thats three years and those albums are just as musical as his others and Premo played his part musically on those albums and the outcome of those albums were classic anyway smh. He got more live instrumentation because he wanted to not because he thinks those kind of beats aint dope. Watch the Throne has some of those same type of beats you call stagnant and redundant so wtf are you talking about? Otis, Murder To Excellence, Prime Time, Welcome To The Jungle and The Joy are not fucking rocket Science Type beats. Im not saying they easy to do but that same production style is what you are implying is stagnant just because it dont sound like some garbage off Last Train. Lastly you cant say the fans keep the game stagnant when the fans dont make their favorite rappers albums dumbass the artists do and just because I would not want to rap over some shit that sounds like its from the MBDTF album does not mean I think its wack or im not a music person it means I just think something from 9th Wonder or Dj Babu or Black Milk sounds dope as well. I like hip hop that sounds like some punch you in the face music, I dont always wanna hear something that sounds like a Timbaland beat or some techno beat Diddy had somebody make for him and then he still acts like he created it. I bet fucking Yung Berg could make a beat better then Diddy at this point if Diddy had to actually touch the boards himself. If I want those type of beats ill go listen to some other shit and further more artist in hip hop already been taking the sound other places for years already. All K-os albums make Last Train sound like bullshit and his sound is more progressive then Diddy and he still keeps it HIP HOP. There are many other artists and producers that are more progressive then Diddy when it comes to sound but just because im good with something that sounds like Premo or DJ Jazzy Jeff or Alchemist made it does not mean im not a fan of music dumbass. Im a HIP HOP fan not some fucking Last Train To Paris type nigga thats into that type of clown music.
Marty, are you still writing damned essays? On a damned blog site?
Get a life man; seriously.
Oh and that Last Train shit that you think is the greatest album of all time had a couple dope beats but if I had to choose between that type sound and the production style you call stagnant and redundant, ill take the latter because that sound was here before Diddy and will be here after Diddy and id rather hear some shit like what he did on American Gangster with Sean C & LV then some bullshit he did as Dirty Money. And dont come trying to use American Gangster as an example of what your talking about now because NO, what you have been implying is that type of sound is stagnant and redundant.
Pauly D, Shut your stupidass, nerdy, lame, corny, ignorant, assup before I son you like I use to do everyday for months again.
You're pathetic. Out of all the 2DBZ trolls, you have to be the worst.
The fact that you troll this site ALL DAY and write ENDLESS ESSAYS ON ESSAYS is scary, to say the least. Don't you have a job? A family? Kids? Friends? Anything?
Dude, in all honesty, get a life. Because, and I'm being honest here(so don't try to catch any feelings), nobody gives a shit about what you post on this site.
Pauly im doing great buddy, I got all those things and more so unless you can find a way to come see what how im doing and show me you've done more then close your mouth cause your pointless bullshit only shows you little feelings are still hurt so worry about yourself because most likely your nobody special at all. Im even more so respected for what I say off the internet then what I say on it. Nobody knows you pussy
I said not to catch feelings remember? lol I'm done with you anyway, no point in talking to a troll.
All those comments you call ESSAYS took a combined time of about 20 mins yesterday spent on 2DBZ between hors of doing a bunch of other shit so worry about yourself and eat a dick bitch.
hoUrs of doing a bunch of other shit.... Dickhead
Lol Still mad?
Yo Marty, I love your passion and all, but you really need to calm down son. I'm saying because I know you fantasize about me while you jack off and gotta say, that's a bad look for both of us. People associate me with you even when you ain't talking about me so I gotta, either stop being such a bitch, or keep my name outcha mouth. Peace.
HOV!! THE DYNASTY CONTINUES, Y'ALL DIE!!
@marty: you sound like that nigga on the block. Never specific.
Bunch of other shit=NO shit at all.